Pre-bed vs pre-workout for GH secretagogues — the real argument

Mostly agree. One nuance — for GHRH alone (no GHRP), pre-bed stacking is huge. For GHRP alone (hexarelin, GHRP-2), the bigger pulse comes from augmenting an existing stimulus (exercise or sleep), so timing matters less and 'whenever fasted' often works fine.

The cortisol bounce thing is real and under-discussed. My n=1: tirzepatide + pre-bed Ipa stacked my 3am wakeups for a solid two weeks of a cycle. Split dosing fixed it.

I run pre-bed only during weight-loss blocks (want the fat ox + the sleep-adjacent lipolysis window) and split during bulks (want the IGF steady state). Different goals, different dosing.

Define 'AUC' though. 24hr IGF-1 AUC is the downstream proxy. Acute GH AUC from the pulse is a different thing and arguably less relevant for most goals here. If IGF is your target, consistent pulses across the day probably beats one monster pulse.

@the_stats_guy fair point — I was sloppy. I meant IGF-1 AUC, and you're right that steady pulsing probably outperforms single spike for IGF. Concede.

The 'fat ox during sleep' mechanism via pre-bed GH is often overstated. The direct GH-on-adipocyte lipolysis signal is modest compared to the fasting state itself. Pre-bed mostly works because it stacks on sleep pulse, not because it's magically fat burning at night.

Data from my last 3 cycles: pre-bed alone → IGF end-cycle 248. Split 3x → IGF end-cycle 271. Same total weekly dose. n=2 cycles each. Not definitive but directionally what I'd expect.

@restwise that matches my experience. Week 1 sleep is great, week 3 it's meh, week 5 it's worse than baseline. Part of why I don't run more than 6 weeks pre-bed before switching to split.

Sleep architecture comment — pre-bed Ipa specifically (via ghrelin pathway) can INCREASE SWS in fresh users and DECREASE SWS after ~2 weeks as receptors downregulate. Seen it in my ring data across multiple cycles.

Pre-workout camp here. I train fasted at 5:30am, pre-workout pin is easy and it doesn't muck with sleep. IGF gains are solid, no cortisol weirdness. I don't care about optimal if it's unsustainable.

@slow_titrate yes. Pre-bed high-dose → more AM water retention, more morning stiffness. Split dosing → chronic low-grade but less peak. Pre-workout → least of all three in my experience because the exercise 'uses' the pulse rather than it pooling.

Any difference in AE profile between the three timings that people have noticed? Water retention, joint stiffness, CTS-like symptoms?

Really helpful thread for a lurker. Saving.

@new2peptides 2-3hr post a mixed meal, 1hr post protein-only, 45min post trace carbs. Plain water fine. Electrolytes with no carbs fine. Anything that spikes insulin will blunt the pulse.

Dumb question — what's 'fasted' mean in this context, zero calories for 2hr or 3hr? And does water with electrolytes break it?

The best argument for split dosing is robustness. It's less sensitive to 'I ate too close to pin' or 'I pinned and then got called into a late dinner' failures. Peak AUC matters less than adherence over 8 weeks.

@taper_time strongly agree on desensitization. It's why I hard-cap at 8 weeks and take a 4 week off. Diminishing returns after week 6 in my data.

Hot take: past 6 weeks on any GHRH/GHRP combo the timing debate is moot because the pituitary is desensitized regardless. Cycle duration > pulse timing.

@cycle_wrangler I've tried 5/2. Felt like it helped. No labs to confirm though, just subjective. Worth experimenting with.

Anyone tried 5-on/2-off weekly pulsing to delay desensitization? I've been running it for ~10 weeks without the usual plateau feel.

There's a Sigalos review (2018) that argues for 2-3x daily dosing as the more physiologic approach. Not a trial, but a reasonable framing for this whole debate.

For anyone landing on this thread later — the TL;DR is: there's no single best timing. Match timing to your goal, your schedule, and your sleep response. Stop asking whether pre-bed 'is better' in a vacuum.

Great thread. Would love a poll at the end: % of regulars using pre-bed / pre-workout / split / AM. Gut says split is most common among the vets.

Split is most common among people who measure. Pre-bed is most common among people who read Reddit. Draw your own conclusions.